I share these blog posts on Facebook (FB). Comments are often posted on those FB posts, which is frustrating because those comments are often valuable contributions to the body of knowledge and understanding about Jan de Jong (JDJ) and his tradition that is being developed and shared in this blog.
In posting comments on FB, the questions and insights that arise from those comments are often lost to posterity, consequently, the lessons that come from the 'rise and fall' of the JDJ tradition are lost to posterity.
Please, dear readers, post comments on this blog so that they may be preserved for posterity and initiate further discussion, not just about the JDJ tradition itself, but also about other martial arts, self defence, and close combat systems.
There were two main themes in the comments received (primarily on FB) in response to the previous blog post: (1) how long it takes to grade shodan, and (2) that I'd missed some names of JDJ's instructors. These issues will be explored below.
How long to grade shodan?
In the previous post, I wrote: 'A relatively common question that is asked is: how long does it take to get a black belt in JDJ's grading system? The commonly conceived wisdom is 10 years. Where did that number come from?'
Working on this post, the above comment has to be qualified. It is about how long does it take the average student doing the average amount of training to get a black belt in JDJ's jujutsu grading system.
There are three people who were awarded shodan by JDJ within the abovementioned 10-year timeframe: Robert Hymas, Peter Clarke, and myself.
Hymas was not an average student doing the average amount of training because he worked fulltime at the Jan de Jong Self Defence School (JDJSDS) during that period.
I was not an average student doing the average amount of training because I commenced training by attending two lessons a day, six days a week, and engaging in a lot of extra training (see
post). Some might suggest that I was single minded, however, that is not true because I also completed higher academic and professional qualifications during that period while I was working in professional environments.
That leaves Peter Clarke. Is he the only average student doing the average amount of training that was awarded
shodan within 10 years? Did he engage in the average amount of training? He definitely did not engage in the same amount of training that I did, however, he was also not single minded as he rose to become the managing partner of a leading law firm in Perth. Did his success come from him being an above-average student?
Writing the above paragraph, I realised that Peter Clarke's history has flown under the radar. His achievements are
noted, but his training history is not known. When rereading his bio on the Southern Cross Bujutsu webpage (see previous link), I realised that he too, like myself, started teaching for JDJ within two years of commencing training (see below).
The following are some of the FB comments in relation to the original time-frame issue:
If the 25 grades to Shodan in the JdJ era are to be completed in that 10 years, that's a grading every 4 months. Attending 2 classes a week would equate to 40 hours preparation and assumes you do nothing else but grading material every class, which as we know is not going to happen. I'm guessing that 10 years actually requires just as much "extra" work to stop it blowing out to 25.
I respect that commentor and their reasoning behind their comment, and they are not wrong with regards to the numbers, but what also has to be remembered is that those numbers are averages. Four months for rokkyu (6th kyu) with 30 attack-defence combinations in the reflex grading and four months for shodan (1st dan) with 140 attack-defence combinations in the original shodan grading, and now four months for part one and then part two with approximately 70 attack-defence combinations in each part.
In order to achieve the 10-year timeframe for
shodan, one would have to be successfully completing the earlier, less arduous gradings at a faster rate than one every four (actually 4.8) months so that there would be more time to complete the more arduous gradings in
ikkyu and
shodan.
Debbie Clarke: 'I certainly never mentioned 10 years as a time frame even for Shodan. More likely 15- 20 years!!'
I mention Debbie by name because she is a very important person in the JDJ tradition. One who I respect highly and who is worthy of that respect. If she speaks, we should listen.
A short biography of Deb's can be viewed on this
page on the Southern Cross Bujutsu website; the school that she founded when JDJ was still alive and with his blessing. As impressive as that biography is, it still does not do her justice.
When initially drafting this post, I started to elaborate on Deb's bio with an emphasis on her time with JDJ, however, it soon became an essay in itself because she achieved so much and was responsible for so much. She was a trailblazer in many respects. I will only elaborate on the shodan issue in this post.
Deb commenced training in 1966. She failed a
kyu grade but came back to become the first female to be awarded
shodan in 1982 by JDJ. She is the only person to undertake and successfully complete the
shodan 140 attack-defence combination
shinken shobu no kata reflex. She was one of the first
shodans that JDJ graded and more than held her own with the male recipients.
Deb is not naturally talented, as she would readily admit, but she is a study in resilience and hard work. There is far more than the above in Deb's life, and it is all a study in resilience and mental strength.
She once told me a story about how she, as a young nurse, was attacked from behind in a parkland and all she thought was that her defence was taking longer than she thought it would. And remember, she wasn't a black belt then ... and young (to paraphrase the book and movie title, We Were Soldiers ... and Young.'
For Deb, shodan within the JDJ jujutsu grading system is more like '15-20 years!!' rather than the suggested 10 years. As I said above, if she speaks, we should listen, however, that timeframe is also a guesstimate, which the abovementioned calculations suggest.
Sensei
The following is part of a private message received in relation to my abovementioned FB post and as such I will not disclose the message sender's name, instead referring to them as X.
X: BTW, I was am (sic) instructor with jdj for more than 15yrs. I think your blog should explain the significance of black and white grading which jdj himself referred to me as X Sensei. 10 years grading shodan is the exception not the reality.
There are a number of issues that X raises in their message.
First, given that JDJ passed away on 5th April, 2003, 21 years ago (I cannot believe that it has been that long ago), X could not technically have been an instructor with JDJ. Being an instructor with a JDJ
ryuha is not the same as being an instructor with JDJ in many respects, not the least of which is that one does not get the benefits of JDJ's instruction and culture as an instructor. The culture in all of the JDJ
ryuha is very different to that in the original JDJ
ryu.
Second, X suggested that my blog should explain the significance of black and white grading in the JDJ jujutsu grading system.
Previous posts in this series of posts regarding the development of the JDJ jujutsu grading system has repeatedly explained that
ikkyu, black and white belt, was the original instructor's grading.
Ikkyu formed the basis for all of the
dan (black belt) grades that were developed after it. It has also been noted that prior to the first
dan grades being awarded in 1981, all of the instructors at the JDJSDS were
ikkyu holders, with the exception of JDJ, and there were very impressive instructors among that cohort.
By the by, I believe that JDJ ikkyu holders are deserving of at least a shodan (a black belt) given a comparative analysis with other martial arts and their grading systems, which is wholly supported by this study of the development of the JDJ jujutsu grading system.
The role of the ikkyu gradings needs to be reassessed given the development of the dan grades independent from the kyu grades and without a systems thinking approach being adopted.
Third, X suggests that JDJ referred to him as X sensei. This led me to consider the meaning of sensei and its relationship with senpai:
In Japanese martial arts, as well as in broader Japanese culture, the term "senpai" (先輩) refers to someone who is a senior or elder in a specific context, typically indicating someone who has more experience or has been in a particular group, school, or organization longer than the speaker or the person referred to as "kohai" (後輩), who would be the junior or younger member. The senpai-kohai relationship is deeply rooted in Japanese social and educational systems, emphasizing respect, hierarchy, and mentorship.
In the context of martial arts, a senpai is not just a senior student in terms of time spent in the dojo (training hall) but also someone who has attained a higher level of skill, understanding, and perhaps rank. Senpai are expected to lead by example, offer guidance, and help kohai learn the discipline, techniques, and etiquette of the martial art being practiced. This role is pivotal in maintaining the traditional values of respect, discipline, and the master-apprentice relationship in the dojo.
The term "sensei" (先生), on the other hand, refers to a teacher or master and is a title of great respect. In martial arts, a sensei is someone who has mastered the art to a significant degree and is responsible for teaching and guiding all students in the dojo. The sensei imparts not just techniques but also the philosophy, ethics, and deeper understanding of the martial art.
The relationship between senpai, kohai, and sensei is hierarchical but also deeply interpersonal and rooted in mutual respect and the pursuit of knowledge and skill. Senpai serves as an intermediary between the kohai and the sensei, embodying the teachings and philosophy of the sensei while also being more accessible to the kohai for guidance and support. This structure ensures that knowledge and traditions are passed down effectively and that the culture of the dojo is preserved and respected.
Thus, in Japanese martial arts, the concepts of senpai and sensei are integral to the learning environment, ensuring that teachings are transmitted with respect for tradition and with care for personal growth and community cohesion.
As far as I am aware, and I could be wrong, X was awarded
ikkyu under JDJ but only assisted other instructors/
sensei and was never responsible for their own class(es) in the JDJSDS while JDJ was alive. Even though
ikkyu was the original instructor's grading and is designed to produce instructors as well as practitioners, does assisting a
sensei entitle the
ikkyu holder to be referred to as
sensei? Or would it be more appropriate to refer to them as
senpai?
In a previous
post, I explain how JDJ asked me to take over the Melville branch from Paul Connolly after 1.5 years training and while only
sankyu (3rd
kyu; orange belt). Thus, after 1.5 years training and only
sankyu, I was a
sensei, without having undergone the
ikkyu instructor's grade nor having assisted any
sensei of any description in the JDJSDS. However, when I came to be an assistant to JDJ in his senior class at the JDJSDS, even when I was
shodan,
nidan, and eventually
sandan, is it appropriate to refer to me in that capacity as
senpai?
And lastly, X's '10 years grading
shodan is the exception not the reality.' The three 'exceptions' are Robert Hymas, Peter Clarke, and myself, as discussed above.
The Issue with the Timing of Shodan
What is the issue with the timing to be awarded shodan in the JDJ jujutsu grading system? As it turns out, there are many issues.
If it takes 15-25 years for the average student who trains the average amount of time to be awarded shodan, is that reasonable? How long does it take to achieve a black belt in jujutsu/Japanese martial arts/martial arts in general? This is what my newfound authority (ChatGPT) has to say on the subject:
The time it takes to achieve a black belt in Japanese
martial arts varies widely depending on several factors including the specific
martial art, the dojo, the frequency of training, the curriculum, and the
individual's dedication and ability. However, here are some general timelines
for a few popular Japanese martial arts:
Karate: Typically, it takes about 4 to 6 years to reach
black belt level. This timeframe can be shorter or longer based on the factors
mentioned above. Some styles may require consistent training multiple times per
week.
Judo: Generally, it takes around 3 to 6 years to earn a
black belt in Judo. Again, this depends on the frequency and intensity of
practice, as well as the dojo's specific requirements.
Aikido: Aikido often takes a bit longer, with many students
taking anywhere from 4 to 7 years to reach a black belt. Aikido emphasizes
continuous improvement and mastery of techniques, which can extend the time
required.
Kendo: For Kendo, the path to black belt usually takes about
3 to 5 years. Progression in Kendo is also highly dependent on regular practice
and competition performance.
Iaido: Similar to Kendo, achieving a black belt in Iaido
generally takes about 3 to 5 years of dedicated practice.
It's important to note that in many Japanese martial arts,
receiving a black belt does not signify mastery but rather a deep understanding
of the basics and the beginning of a deeper study into the art. Also, different
schools and organizations might have varying standards and requirements, so
it's a good idea to check with the specific dojo or martial arts organization
for their particular timelines and expectations.
A Google search will support ChatGPT's information. What this shows is that JDJ's 10 years, let alone 15-25 years is way beyond the norm.
This raises the question; does the length of time that it takes to gain a black belt in the JDJ jujutsu grading system reflect the quality of the award, or does it reflect the haphazard nature of the development of the JDJ jujutsu grading system? Can we produce the same quality, or even better quality, yudansha in far less time by understanding the development of the JDJ jujutsu grading system and reshaping said system? I am, of course, arguing in the affirmative.
In this way, JDJ laid the groundwork; it is up to those who follow in his footsteps to improve on JDJ's work. Are any of those teaching in JDJ ryuha living up to that potential?
Names Missing off the Instructors' List
In the previous post, I shared a question that arose out of my exploration of the development of the JDJ jujutsu grading system:
This exploration also makes me think: is shodan reflective of the 'level' of the likes of John Copley, Ian Lloyd, Tony Chiffings, Debbie Clarke, Hans de Jong, Darryl Cook, Justin Palandri, Steve Moller? Is ikkyu reflective of the 'level' of the likes of Robert Kirby, Vass D'Esterre (deceased), Peter Canavan, Warwick 'Zak' Jaggard, John Polton, Emma Glasson (nee Wouts), Gerald Wouts, Keith 'Keef' Hickey, Dave Palmer, Rodney Miller? All were instructors for JDJ at one time or another. Technically, under the JDJ grading system, yes, but is that an accurate reflection of their abilities, knowledge, and understanding, in particular when you consider what the nidan and sandan grades contribute to the yudansha's abilities, knowledge, understanding, and teaching abilities, and of course when the JDJ grading system is compared to that of many/most other martial arts grading systems.
After the above analysis, I have to amend the above comment. Not all who were listed were 'instructors' per se. Some assisted instructors, some did not assist nor instruct at all.
The point I was trying to make was, are the shodan and ikkyu levels reflective of the 'levels' of the mentioned JDJ jujutsuka? Would the shodan's be higher graded in all other jujutsu grading systems, and should those who hold ikkyu grades in the JDJSDS be more highly graded in the JDJ tradition?
X (see above) contacted me to include himself among the above, however, as I stated above, while they may have been awarded ikkyu and assisted instructors under JDJ, I'm not sure that they actually taught their own classes under JDJ.
A comment received and published on the previous post: 'A few names missing off that instructor list. Janet, Peter T, Heidi, Jamie F and think there were a couple of others whose names escape me.'
Janet Lake was awarded shodan under JDJ but I'm not sure if she ever taught under JDJ. She did go on to establish her own school (JDJ ryuha).
Peter Templeman also was awarded shodan under JDJ and did teach under JDJ. He had his own branch and was very popular with his students. He took a great interest in his students and was very invested in their grading performances, in a good way. He was very supportive of them, and they did him and his teaching proud at the gradings.
Heidi Romundt was awarded ikkyu under JDJ and did teach her own class. She was teaching at Hillary's at the same time as Hans de Jong and myself.
Jamie Francis was the last person to be awarded shodan under JDJ. I do not believe that he taught for JDJ but he may have assisted other instructors at the JDJSDS. He later went on to establish his own school (JDJ ryuha) in the Margaret River region before relocating overseas.
I have a list of JDJ yudansha, courtesy of Greg Palmer, however, I do not have a list of holders of ikkyu that JDJ awarded. If readers would send in names and hopefully dates, I could compile a list of JDJ ikkyu holders.
I do know of an earlier list of ikkyu who were JDJ instructors in 1974 before the shodan grading was developed and introduced: Warwick 'Zak' Jaggard, Rod Miller (later shodan), Alan Robson, Adrienne Barlow, and Ross Allanson. Adrienne would appear to be the first female ikkyu.
I believe that the female disembarking the moving Vespar scooter driven by Margaret de Jong along with JDJ is Adrienne when demonstrating ukemi waza at the Royal Show way back when.
Other ikkyu that I am aware of are Margaret de Jong (JDJ's wife), Vass D'Esterre, John Poulton, Paul Seaman, David Palmer, Peter Hegarty, Peter Canavan, Robert Kirby, David Green, Michael Boland (?), Dennis Dunn, ... Emma Wouts (nee Glasson), Gerald Wouts, Keith Hickey, although I'd need confirmation because I wasn't at the JDJSDS then.
Introduction
